5x16 The Incident Parts 1 & 2: Ginger Ale Talk

More than two weeks late but better late than never :) So much happened in the two hour season finale, that it would take far too long (because we’re lazy like that) to cover it all in this entry. But for the record, we loved it and texted throughout the entire thing. Now, on to our analysis ..

We finally meet Jacob.. and some other guy

SUSAN: Lost!
RACHEL: I’m glad you brought that up because I’ve been dying to talk to someone about the finale. Namely you.
SUSAN: Woo!! I haven’t said a word about it since I saw it and it was SO good!
RACHEL: It was!! Where to start? Because we should definitely update our blog with this last ginger ale talk until next season.
SUSAN: Jacob? So, he’s looking at the Black Rock in the beginning right?
RACHEL: Right, and according to Unnamed Guy (who will be referred to as UG from this point on), it seems that Jacob brought that ship to the island somehow.
SUSAN: And it was implied this has happened before. So, the island is in a time loop?
RACHEL: I don’t think a time loop per se, though definitely a loop. I think the implication was that Jacob has brought people to the island before in the hopes that they can do good or at the very least, live in peace. Whereas UG said that it’s always the same cycle of people coming to island, becoming corrupt, causing destruction. To me, it was very “good vs.. evil” and “free will vs.. fate”.
SUSAN: True. I got the “good vs. evil” vibe as well. Also I need to take a moment and gloat, because Locke really is dead and I think UG is the smoke monster. Therefore, Locke is the smoke monster.
RACHEL: As in Evil-Locke being the Smoke Monster and Dead-Locke is the real Locke right? So you think the UG is also Christian, Walt, Smoke Monster, etc.. and falsely speaking in Jacob’s name so he could manipulate real Locke and eventually take over his body, just to find a way to kill the real Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes, so it’s like “God vs. the devil” and the devil keeps throwing out these temptations. Now I think it’s on us to figure out which events were Jacob steering them and which were the devil guy.
RACHEL: True. Did you get the feeling that in the end, Jacob was almost sacrificing himself? Like he knew that might happen (Ben stabbing him).
SUSAN: Yeah, he definitely didn’t seem surprised.
RACHEL: Because if we’re to go along with the Biblical theme, in a way, maybe he was sacrificing himself in order to give the Losties a second chance. I don’t know why them specifically though. Or to give the Losties he touched a second chance? Or to prove his theory correct, that people don’t always cause destruction? I do think that Jacob touching each of the Losties will be important somehow.
SUSAN: So how would Jacob sacrificing himself reset things?
RACHEL: That is a very good question lol. Or remember that Chronicles of Narnia connection from a while back? There was a character called Aslan who was sort of a god-like figure. He willing allowed himself to be killed/sacrificed in the place of someone else. But because he died for someone else’s sin, he came back to life.
SUSAN: Hmmm, speaking of dying for someone else - what about killing for someone else? What was all that business about a loophole?
RACHEL: Well in the beginning, UG said that one day he would find a loophole to kill Jacob since he couldn’t do it himself. Which made me think of two things: (1) how Widmore and Ben had these rules and seemingly couldn’t kill each other, and (2) does that mean UG has been orchestrating everything (like since Flight815 crashed or maybe even before that) just to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: But Jacob had visitied all those people?
RACHEL: I don’t think so. I think just the ones showed in the finale - Jack, Kate, Jin, Sun, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid and Locke.

4-Toed Status & the Cabin
RACHEL: You know what I found a little strange - EvilLocke was surprised to find out that Jacob lived in the 4-toed statue. But since EvilLocke is really UG, shouldn’t he have known that already based on the beginning of the episode? It seemed like they were both living and co-existing on the island for a very long time.
SUSAN: well, maybe after evil guy stole the cabin he didn’t know where Jacob went.
RACHEL: True but that seems like an obvious place to check. Also, do you think the person who said “help me” to Locke in the cabin was even Jacob? Maybe it was UG trying to manipulate Locke.
SUSAN: Wow, good point. You know, I kind of think it was a trapped soul. I’m really giving UG devil qualities. So he (via smoke monster?) captures souls and keeps them with him.

More on Jacob
RACHEL: You know what else is interesting though, of the people Jacob visited and touched - Hurley and Sayid were post-crash whereas everyone else was pre-crash.
SUSAN: What would make them different? I just had a thought - what if when Ben was dying, and Richard took him in and said he’d always be “one of us”. What if that was part of the loophole?
RACHEL: Like one of their people had to be the one to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes.
RACHEL: That’s a good point. That sort of coincides with something I read on Doc Jensen’s recap. This whole time we were thinking Locke was Jacob’s chosen leader and Ben was temporary but maybe it’s actually the opposite. It does make sense for “one of them” to be the leader and Jacob’s chosen leader.
SUSAN: True, but why then did Jacob bring Locke back to life?
RACHEL: After his father pushed him out of the building? Same reason he came to see the other Losties? Except we don’t know what that reason is yet. Maybe he had or has a purpose for each of them.
SUSAN: Maybe. Which side do you think Eloise is on?
RACHEL: I want to say Jacob’s side. What do you think?
SUSAN: Um, I can’t decide if she’s her own side. Like.. she’s on this vendetta to make things right so her son lives.
RACHEL: That’s possible but when she had the chance to change things, she didn’t. She still prepped him for his fate and sent him on his way. Unless she hoped he would change things. Oh! I had a thought. What if the leaders of the Others are the constants. People like Ben, Widmore, Eloise. But anyone else, like Faraday and the Losties are the ones who are the variables and could change things. And maybe that’s why Jacob visited the Losties? He’s counting on them to change what happened. The Others/Hostiles seem bound by so many rules whereas “outsiders” are not or don’t seem to be.
SUSAN: oOo.

Was it a reset?
SUSAN:How about a moment for Juliet and Sawyer? So, assuming its a reset, do you think they find each other again?
RACHEL: That was so sad! And, I hope so! I guess it also depends if they keep the memories of what happened already or not.
SUSAN: My assumption is no.
RACHEL: My assumption would be no too. But Doc Jensen had this interesting idea. Like what if the people Jacob touched.. what if those people specifically get to keep their memories.
SUSAN: Somewhat off the point but I need to ask - Sayid’s wife. Did she always die like that? Didn’t she get shot?
RACHEL: I think they did say she was hit by a car so it would seem like an accident but Ben is the one who tells Sayid it was on purpose.
SUSAN: Ohhh. I would be kind of disappointed if they kept their memories.
RACHEL: I think I could be okay with it if it was explained well or if there was a good reason for it.
SUSAN: So I guess that we’d be face with what was fate and what was free will. I mean if Sawyer and Juliet come together again, that’s a big play for fate right?
RACHEL: I think so but if everything is reset, then he lands in LA and she’s still on the island? Or is she never taken to the island?
SUSAN: Hmm, she wouldn’t be right? Although, what I took from the eye [in the commercial] was that they’re back to AFTER the [Oceanic] crash.
RACHEL: Yeah that’s what it seemed like to me, that they were back on the island.
SUSAN: Also I was just thinking about how Michael couldn’t kill himself. Do you think that’s why the bomb didn’t go off right away?
RACHEL: That other things needed to happen first before the bomb went off? That is true. So does that mean that certain things couldn’t be changed? Like Pierre Chang always had to lose his hand/arm, Phil always died, and Radzinsky always got away.

Final comments
RACHEL: Woah - off topic but reading this blog and a really good point was made: “Frequent reader and comment friend Hillary makes an astute observation - that even if the detonation of Jughead results in Jack and co. back on Flight 815, that plane was off course by a thousand miles. It isn’t certain that this flight would indeed get to Los Angeles as intended.”
SUSAN: Excellent point.
RACHEL: Maybe that’s where “fate vs. free will” plays in. That maybe no matter what they do, they always crash on the island.
SUSAN: Except they still have the Walt issue.
RACHEL: Well let’s say they crash anyways on the same island. How they crash will be different assuming that the hatch is never built now. Then their reason for crashing has nothing to do with Desmond not pushing the button. Which means the circumstances of their crash are different. So maybe the plane doesn’t split in half, more/different people die or survive, etc.
SUSAN: So we never find out why Walt is special? That will bother me a lot. Remember in the first season “Miss Q” said they thought Walt was special, “appearing at random times”.
RACHEL: And for some reason, birds died around Walt a lot.
SUSAN: That has to be addressed or else it’s a HUGE hole in the story.
RACHEL: True. Especially if UG did want Walt to come back with the rest of the Oceanic 6 and assuming Christian was/is UG.
SUSAN: It’s weird, I feel clueless. I was so sure of what was going on until the finale.
RACHEL: I know, I definitely feel more clueless than usual. They opened up a lot of new possibilities with the finale.
SUSAN: I wonder what happens with Desmond. There’s so many questions!
RACHEL: Speaking of Desmond, I thought he’d be a part of the finale somehow.
SUSAN: Me too. Maybe we’re meant to believe he’s genuinely not going back.
RACHEL: Wait! But if there’s a reset and we’re taken back to “season 1”, then he’s still on the island right? Or not, because there’s no button to push?
SUSAN: If there’s no button to push is he stranded there alone?
RACHEL: I would assume so, unless the Others take him in.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com