5x06 316: Ginger Ale Talk

RACHEL: Ready to discuss Lost?

SUSAN: Yes! You choose our first topic.

RACHEL: I choose - Eloise Hawking! So, is Hawking really Faraday’s mother and who is this great man that she keeps talking about? I’m still inclined to believe that she’s Faraday’s mother. All signs seem to point towards that — especially with Desmond delivering that message specifically to her. She didn’t deny it but at the same time, I do think there could be a slight chance that she’s not. Because she didn’t seem to react at all to what Desmond said.

SUSAN: She got a sly look on her face and seeing as how she’s Ben’s buddy, I think she could just be using the misinterpretation to her advantage.

RACHEL: That’s true. But she also seems to acknowledge that Ben is a liar which he didn’t seem to appreciate.

SUSAN: And just like Ben, she seems to have her own agenda which may make her a liar too.

RACHEL: True and I agree, I think she does have her own agenda. Like, she never explained her reasons for helping the Oceanic 6 get back or how she knows about that Dharma station. Why is she in charge of it?

SUSAN: Yes, and why is she so concerned with “unpredictable” outcomes? The implication is, she knows how things have already gone and she wants to make sure they stay that way.

RACHEL: Knows how things have already gone.. in the past? or in the future?

SUSAN: Well.. that’s just a can of worms right there. She has been hinting at having knowledge of the future because she claims to be able to “predict” outcomes, and knows that the island is not finished with Jack or Desmond.

RACHEL: Actually, in general various Others seem to have this knowledge. Tom said the same thing to Michael last season when he was trying to kill himself. Does Jacob send them this message to pass on?

SUSAN: Was Tom really there? This is a big question of how people appear, and then have this knowledge. Walt said similar things to Locke when he was in the pit of dead people. But he was technically on mainland and not the island. Or was he… There are a lot of “apparitions” that seem to know the future. Claire told Kate not to let Aaron go back to the island. Christian when Michael was blowing up the boat.

RACHEL: Charlie! He said the same thing to Hurley at the mental institution, again as an apparition. So who are the apparitions and who are real .. and why/how do they have this knowledge.

SUSAN: OH - he did! I was just thinking about all we learned about Egypt last week - that one part about after death, the spirit needing a physical marker to exist. What if that explains the shoes and the guitar case? Maybe Charlie was the one who convinced Hurley to get on the plane and Hurley brought his guitar case, in order to carry his spirit.

RACHEL: Yes! I’ve heard that (on different forums) about Charlie being the one who told Hurley to get on the plane. Which makes sense. We’ve seen Hurley listen to “apparitions” before (like Ana Lucia in the 2nd episode). But I was also thinking he brought the guitar case to replicate the circumstances of the first flight (since Charlie had a guitar with him).

SUSAN: Speaking of - didn’t Ana Lucia say something to the extent of “Don’t get arrested”? And then.. he did get arrested.

RACHEL: Yes and he willingly let himself be arrested. But he did that to avoid Ben since Sayid told him not to trust him.

SUSAN: Interesting. So he chose to listen to Sayid rather than Ana Lucia. He chose corporeal advice over spiritual. Maybe that’s significant.

RACHEL: That could be. Or his fear/distrust of Ben outweighs everything else because he definitely freaked out when he saw Ben coming onto the plane.

SUSAN: Yes, what did he say? “He’s not supposed to be here.” Is Ben’s traveling back to the island with them violating something? Is Ben so overcome with desire to be on the island that he will destroy the timeline to get there?

RACHEL: I don’t think so, because like Hawking said.. they needed to recreate the circumstances of the first flight as closely as possible. So Ben running in at the last minute and thanking them for keeping the door open - that mimicked what happened with Hurley during on Flight815. Hurley & the guitar - Charlie; Sayid & the US Marshall - Kate; Sun holding Jin’s ring - Rose holding Bernard’s ring.

SUSAN: So… who is doing what Sun was doing? And who is pregnant like Claire?

RACHEL: I’m not sure, I was wondering the same thing. Though I don’t think we ever saw what Sun was doing.

SUSAN: You know that guy, that said sorry for your loss. Someone said that but I don’t remember who. Before the original flight..

RACHEL: I remember it happening also. Even Jack looked a little startled like he was experiencing deja vu. Was it Ana Lucia who said that to Jack? I don’t think we’ve seen the last of that guy or the US marshall though. Especially the guy since they seemed to be focusing on him. And now that we’ve gotten completely off-topic as usual Should we try to address that other thing about Eloise Hawking — who is this great man that she kept referring to? It’s very convenient that she never said his actual name. My guess is Faraday. What do you think?

SUSAN: It IS very convenient. I keep wavering between Faraday and the guy that does the Dharma videos. But I like Faraday for it, because I have a great idea for a storyline if it is him. And Eloise KNOWS he will become this great man. So she raises him as her son even though he might not be. Hence the sly-ness.

RACHEL: Yeah, I like the idea of Faraday being that person. And maybe the reason why she had that sly look on her face or why she didn’t seem fazed by Desmond’s statement.. is because she already knew. ‘Cause like we said earlier, she does seem to know what’s going to happen. Maybe things are falling into place, just as they should.

SUSAN: Which can bring us to our next point. Does she then know, since Desmond was led there, Ben is going to make a little visit to Penny?

RACHEL: Ah, that’s possible. Another interesting thing to note .. Damon Lindelof described Eloise as being a “temporal policeman”. Maybe that’s why she seems to know everything. It’s just.. how does she know it?

SUSAN: Have you ever read Narnia? I haven’t, but I’ve been reading this whole lamp post thing is a creation of C.S. Lewis.

RACHEL: Yes it is. I haven’t read all the books but I have read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And there’s this lamp post which sort of acts as the midway point between the real world and Narnia.

SUSAN: Is there a character that guards it?

RACHEL: I don’t remember there being a guard per se. But when Lucy Pevensie first travels to Narnia, she meets a Faun at the Lamp Post.

SUSAN: A talking faun? Are there any comparisons that can be made between the faun and Eloise?

RACHEL: I don’t think so? At first he seemed like a bad guy because he puts Lucy under a spell so he can turn her over to the White Witch (since that was the law). But then he has a change of heart and lets her go.

SUSAN: The White Witch rules Narnia? Is there someone that opposes her? Like a sister.

RACHEL: Yes, she’s the evil witch that rules Narnia and because of her, it’s always winter. The person who opposes her is Aslan, a lion. Here’s the thing. That specific story by C.S. Lewis features a very blatant allegory to Christ’s crucifixion. In fact the story in general has a lot of Christian undertones. And now that I’m thinking about it.. Aslan could be seen as John Locke. Because Lucy’s brother, Edmund, turned out to a traitor and worked with the White Witch. By law, he was supposed to be sentenced to death but Aslan sacrifices himself for Edmund and willing takes his place. He is then killed on the Stone Table. The two Pevensie sisters (Lucy and Susan) witness this and go to take care of his body when he rises from the dead. He comes back to life because of his sacrifice.

SUSAN: That fits perfectly.

RACHEL: But who’s the traitor - Jack? Ben? Eventually Edmund becomes a good person and sees the error of his ways.

SUSAN: Well who is the White Witch? So we have a brother and two sisters?

RACHEL: There’s four of them, two brothers & two sisters. Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy.

SUSAN: Jack and Claire are brother and sister. I don’t really know where I’m going with this to be honest.

RACHEL: Hah, I’m not sure where to go with it either. But I guess it’ll be good to just keep C.S. Lewis and Narnia in mind as possible references.

SUSAN: What if we’re looking at the wrong group? What if we should be looking at Ben, Widmore, Eloise… as the kids. Because.. they end up ruling Narnia right? I got that much from the commercials for the movie lol.

RACHEL: lol - Yeah they end up becoming the rulers of Narnia and “grow up there”. Until they’re like teenagers/young adults. But then they stumble upon the wardrobe again and go through it back to the “real world” and they go back to their younger selves. To the exact same age they were when they first entered Narnia.

RACHEL: (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Eloise_Hawking — All the info Lostpedia has on Eloise.)

SUSAN: Her last words to Desmond were that pressing the button is the only great thing he will ever do in his life. I don’t like how all these things assume Faraday is her son. Like.. assume to be fact. As far as I understand it, its not fact yet.

RACHEL: If that is the only great thing he will ever do, then why isn’t the island done with him? There’s no button to push anymore.

SUSAN: Is there ANOTHER button? LOL, maybe it’s a button factory, the island. Okay new topic: Is Penny dead?

RACHEL: I don’t know if I think she’s dead or not.. but I do think that Ben went after them (Penny & Desmond). I don’t really see Ben overtaking Desmond though.

SUSAN: There was obviously a scuffle. If Desmond was there. My belief is, he got someone. Whether it was Penny or Charlie, I don’t know. I think we’re going to learn a lot when that reveal comes up though because I think the details of that night are really going to point to Ben’s true character and motivations.

RACHEL: That’s true. But even then, it’s still so hard to pinpoint if Ben is good or bad. Because on the plane, when Jack asked him about the other people on the plane & what would happen to them — Ben says “Who cares”. But at the same time, claims to have done so much to protect the Oceanic 6 and that he’s one of the good guys.

SUSAN: He seems to be working very hard to maintain this “predictable” order, whatever that may be.

RACHEL: Yes, him and Eloise. Which just made me think of something. Remember how Ben told Widmore that he changed the rules? If Ben and Eloise are working together to maintain this predictable order. Is Widmore trying to change it then? I think maybe he is. ‘Cause he’s definitely not on Ben’s side.

SUSAN: ooOOoo - but he did direct Desmond to Eloise. It would be ironic if he directed Desmond to Eloise and that caused the death of his daughter.

RACHEL: Hmm, since he did direct Desmond to Eloise .. he must not realize she’s working with Ben. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have given Desmond that information.

SUSAN: True, which actually gives more credence to the Ellie/Widmore being the parents of Faraday theory. Because he obviously knew about her but has no current contact with her life. Sort of like.. say.. a divorced couple?

RACHEL: Very true.

SUSAN: New topic? How about.. Aaron? Where is he, and why did Kate need to get all creepy talking about it?

RACHEL: I think she may have gotten all creepy talking because she really doesn’t want anyone to know where he is. Because when Claire appeared to her, she said “Don’t you dare bring him back!” I think knowing that Jack was willing to work with Ben might make her distrustful of him. Even on the plane, she made that comment about how even though they’re all there, they’re not necessarily together. As to where he is.. I have no idea. Maybe her mother? Claire’s mother? I read somewhere that maybe she brought him to Desmond & Penny.

SUSAN: But if she had, why would she keep that from Jack? to keep him away from Aaron? Her whole “If you want me to get on that plane you’ll never ask me that question again” was a bit of an over-reaction, no? I mean, why not just say, I don’t want to tell you.

RACHEL: Right. And so there’s chance of him [Jack] accidentally telling anyone, like Ben. Oh! And another idea as to where Aaron could be. Remember last season, when Sawyer whispered into Kate’s ear about a favor? I personally assumed the favor had to do with his daughter and the mother. We saw Kate trying to carry out that promise. Maybe she left Aaron with her.

SUSAN: So.. I missed him having a daughter.

RACHEL: Remember that woman he conned - Cassidy? At one point, she even crosses paths with Kate pre-island. To help her talk to her mother in hospital. She told Kate about what happened with Sawyer and about getting pregnant but left out his name. Then during a later episode, when Sawyer was in prison.. Cassidy goes to visit him and showed him a picture of a girl saying that he was his daughter named Clementine. He even deposited all his earnings from his prison con to a bank account in her name.

SUSAN: OH RIGHT. Yes, now I remember. That makes sense that the whisper would be about her.

RACHEL: Yes and since Cassidy has helped her before. She might potentially trust her with Aaron also.

SUSAN: Interesting.. and then, why did all this make her [Kate] crazy horny for Jack and then give him the cold shoulder.

RACHEL: ‘Cause when she’s mad and/or upset, she jumps either Jack or Sawyer. Where do you think Aaron is?

SUSAN: That’s true. I was leaning towards something a little more mystical. Like Christian showed up in the middle of the night and took him.

RACHEL: Hmm but she should know what Christian looks like at this point. So wouldn’t she know that it’s Jack’s father and tell him? Unless Christian said something to her.

SUSAN: Which would sort of go with.. if “apparitions had appeared to the other survivors.

RACHEL: True but technically he’s not a survivor. He was already dead..?

SUSAN: This is the part that makes my brain hurt.

RACHEL: Haha most of it makes my brain hurt.